We’ve Been Drinking Tea Wrong | Loose Leaf Tea, Infusions & Traditional Tea Preparation

Maggie (00:02.648)
There's an old art to preparing plants properly because leaves, flowers, roots, and bark were never meant to be treated the same way. Welcome to Women Folk Revival, where we are deeply rooted and wildly intentional. I am Aggie.

Meara (00:20.658)
and I'm Mira. Okay, so I thought this was going to be a simple episode about infusions versus decoctions. However, it has turned into a complete tea identity crisis for me because why did I not know that green tea, black tea, oolong, and puer all come from one plant?

Maggie (00:43.194)
And why did I not know that anything made with any other plant isn't an actual tea, but a tisane or tisane.

Meara (00:53.172)
What's a, what's a tazine?

Maggie (00:56.332)
It is anything steeped in water that is not from the Camellia sinensis plant, which is the one that produces all your different true teas.

Meara (01:05.728)
Yeah, I didn't know that. I genuinely thought they were all different herbs. And apparently the difference comes from what happens to the leaves after they're picked. So in case you didn't know, oxidation and fermentation are not the same thing, which I definitely didn't realize the difference before we chose to do this episode. So what I found out was oxidation basically happens when the leaves react to oxygen after they're picked. So it's kind of like when you cut open an apple and it slowly turns brown.

Maggie (01:14.296)
Mm-hmm.

Meara (01:35.654)
while it's sitting on the counter. That's like oxidization. Did I say that right? Oxidation. So green tea is heated really quickly after picking it to stop the oxidation. So they either steam the leaves or they put them in like a frying pan and like really hot pans. Yeah. okay.

Maggie (01:35.778)
Yes.

Maggie (01:40.044)
Yes, oxidation.

Maggie (01:52.654)
Yeah, in China they fry them, in Japan they steam them.

Meara (01:57.8)
I didn't know that. so then basically the leaves deactivates the enzymes, which cause the oxidization. So they stay greener longer and fresher and lighter and they're oxidized. But black tea on the other hand, what I found out, oxidizes much longer. So instead of stopping it quickly like green tea, they allow the leaves to keep reacting with that oxygen for much longer. So cool. So after the leaves are picked, they just roll them up and bruise them or they break them up to expose some of the

insides of the leaf to the oxygen and then they let them sit for over a period of time and apparently as they oxidize, not apparently as they oxidize, the leaves get darker so then that makes the flavor get stronger and it becomes more bold. And then one of my favorites, oolong, that's in the middle.

of oxidization. And then my other favorite, poor, is different because it's fermented. And I thought that it was just left sitting in the sun, but apparently it's about moisture and warmth and microbes aging over time. That is so cool.

Maggie (03:02.967)
Yes, yes, I never knew, I never knew about Pura, is that right? Pura.

Meara (03:09.215)
Poor.

Who are? I think I'm saying that right.

Maggie (03:14.189)
Okay, whatever.

Maggie (03:18.925)
I knew about that one and I'm so interested in trying that one. And another one I had never heard of either was yellow tea, which I find is the rarest of all. So I definitely want to do more research on that one too. And did you know this is something I found out too, that matcha is green tea. It's just the whole leaf made into a powder that I did not know.

Meara (03:27.443)
Huh. Interesting.

Meara (03:39.007)
Mm-hmm.

Meara (03:42.45)
Yeah, I did know that. did know that. I, poor is like one of my...

One of my favorite teas. Apparently they age it over years, some pour. It's intentionally piled and warmed up and moistened to speed up the fermentation process. So once I realized all these come from the same plant, I started doing some research on how we prepare them all. And I realized that traditional tea cultures almost prepare them like an art, if you will, because they paid attention to the leaves and the timing and the water and the temperature and how the

Maggie (04:11.885)
Hmm.

Meara (04:18.209)
body responded to it and honestly I just used to leave the leaves sit in my cup all day as I sipped but apparently I've been doing that all wrong. Yeah. Well it gets better.

Maggie (04:26.943)
You should not. And why should we not do that, Mira?

Meara (04:33.247)
That's for one. You ever had your mouth get like real cottony? Yeah, the longer leaves sit in the water, the more the tannins and the oxalates get extracted. So tannins are what create that bitter dry mouth feeling. Like when the tea almost tastes really harsh and it feels really dusty afterwards. Tannins in these leaves are a defense system that helps protect the plants from like fungus and sex bacteria and all that stuff. And oxalates, which is another one,

Maggie (04:33.502)
Mm-hmm, and why?

Meara (05:03.201)
It's a natural, the plant's natural compound found in like tea. It's also found in spinach and nuts and beets and all those different, and chocolate. Those help regulate the minerals inside the plant. And these actually are not bad compounds because the plants develop them for protection for itself. But it made me think that maybe we weren't supposed to massively over extract.

plants either, know, in balanced amounts. Many of these compounds actually have benefits, but when we leave tea, sitting forever in the water, you know, that's where it can become harsh on the stomach and irritating to sensitive people.

Maggie (05:45.644)
Yeah, yeah, tannins and oxalates are huge in the food scene right now and everyone's telling you not to eat them. And you definitely should limit your intake of them if you do have underlying health issues. For the average person that has good, generally good health, tannins are not going to affect them.

Meara (06:03.252)
Yeah.

Meara (06:13.779)
Well, in larger amounts than I will, it'll upset your stomach at the most. That's why they process it different.

Maggie (06:16.203)
are most likely not going, huh? Yeah, yes, but it's not this big, you know, health scare that everyone is making it out to be. Not for everyone, it can be, like I said, if you have underlying issues. But tannins can also be beneficial. You know, there's antioxidant activity, they have antimicrobial effects.

Meara (06:35.443)
Yes.

Meara (06:44.596)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (06:45.229)
What else and I know people say that they they will they bind minerals like zinc and iron Zinc and iron And that just means that your body can't absorb them at that time but you know what I what I've I've always known about iron is that you can have

Meara (06:55.315)
calcium.

Meara (07:05.498)
Thank

Maggie (07:12.685)
too much iron. You can also have too much zinc and both will cause, can cause serious health complications. It almost makes me wonder that maybe these tannins are also there to ensure that we don't overload on those minerals because if we are eating whole foods there is that potential and if you're eating a carnivore diet there's a real potential for you to have too much iron.

Meara (07:27.327)
It's the same.

Meara (07:40.266)
Well that's also why you eat certain meals when you drink these things and meals that have like...

Maggie (07:42.72)
Hmm

Meara (07:45.664)
dairy and stuff in it. And you know, I realized traditional tea cultures, yeah, already seem to understand this balance long before modern science explained why. Back then they did short steep times and they reused the leaves and they watched water carefully, which is what we do in our house. Although now I'm not leaving them in my water. So depending on how you apply heat and time in this exact same plant, you unlock completely different medicines for your body, which I thought

Maggie (07:49.247)
Item in C.

Meara (08:15.687)
was fascinating. You can take the same leaf and change its entire chemical footprint just by changing the technique. So one of what we do is the two-step flash steep system that many traditional cultures use. So we do a quick rinse first, which I wasn't doing the quick rinse part. So I pour hot water over my leaves and I let them sit for about 30 seconds and then I throw out that first steep because

Maggie (08:22.999)
No.

Meara (08:45.557)
it's less bitter and you can keep reusing the same leaves over. But you want to...

throw away that first steep because that's what holds the highest amount of caffeine, highest amount of oxalates and the highest amount of tannins. So the caffeine and loose surface oxalates are highly water soluble. So then they rush out in like the first 30 seconds by dumping that first pour. So then the short steep pulls out the L-theanine, which is an amino acid that creates that calmness and focused brain waves and antioxidants. So it's like real light and clean and acts like a medicine for your

brain. And then the next one that my husband does is the Sunsteep where you put it in the sun for a few hours with the green and the black tea. So without boiling, the water doesn't have that force to tear open the cell walls to make it bitter. So the lant, the tannin stay locked inside of the leaf. So then the sun slowly draws out the amino acids and preserves the antioxidants. So it's like vitamin C and green tea that heat usually destroys. So if you Sunsteep green tea, you get the ultimate theanine

Maggie (09:40.311)
Really?

Meara (09:53.953)
L-theanine bomb with zero bitterness. I had no idea. And my husband actually has been doing this for the last few weeks. My kids need some of that L-theanine tea. And I don't know if you can hear them with the background screaming. They need that calm L-theanine bomb. It's got friendly fermented nutrients and it's refreshing and incredibly hydrating. Like we love it.

Maggie (09:58.798)
was crazy.

Maggie (10:10.027)
You

Meara (10:19.237)
And then there's the third way. Sometimes we take, sometimes we take, this is the way you like, we take the black ground, tea grounds, and we boil them high. And then we take it off of the stove. We also add cardamom pods and cinnamon. Do you know what I'm making? We take it off the water, we add our milk, and then we do three high rolling boils.

Maggie (10:33.451)
Nook T.

Meara (10:41.895)
I think, I thought we used to do, my husband used to do this for flavor. Yes, milk tea, but scientifically it's a decoction.

So it's pushing the tea into a rolling boil three times when you do that. It acts like a chemical sledgehammer where it forces out everything that's locked up, the locked up compounds. So you get the maximum caffeine, the heaviest polyphenols, and a huge wave of tannins. So if you drink it straight, your mouth would dry instantly. That's why we put the milk in to keep it from feeling that way. It's called casein, the milk proteins. It binds to the tannins and it neutralizes that bitterness.

Maggie (11:20.023)
Mm-hmm.

Meara (11:22.751)
it doesn't irritate your stomach. It acts like a sponge, Yes, yeah. So the moment you add that milk, the tannins bind to the the casein in the cup instead of your mouth not making it super dry. Yeah. And I've always added a touch of milk to my tea, which I didn't realize had those benefits. I just, you know, I like the way it tastes. So

Maggie (11:24.95)
and it's so good. It's so delightful.

Maggie (11:37.069)
Thanks.

Maggie (11:47.8)
Yeah, I like the way I like my black teas. And I never realized there's so many different kinds of black teas. And I typically do the English breakfast, which is a combination of like three different black teas. And then my chai tea, of course, I love. But I have a som tea from you, which is a black tea that I need to start making my milk tea with.

Meara (12:01.343)
That's so cool.

Meara (12:12.671)
Chai tea. Everybody says chai tea. You're just saying tea twice. Tea tea. Chai is tea. So my kids walk around going, I want some tea tea. I'm like, excuse me. Because Omar said that chai tea is tea.

Maggie (12:19.993)
really?

So.

Maggie (12:28.877)
Apparently we just do everything wrong in the Western world because like I said before too, unless it comes from the Camila sinensis plant, it is not tea. So if you're, you know, if you have your dandelion tea or your nettle tea or your hibiscus tea, those are not teas. They're tisans, tisanes.

Meara (12:38.866)
It is night tea.

Meara (12:45.405)
Yes, yes. Those are infusions, or infusions versus unlike decoctions where, you know, that started finally making sense to me after doing all this research because different plants want different preparation methods, you know, so like peppermint, sweet mint, tulsi, tea leaves that I use do better with steeping than, and that's an infusion. So...

Tulsi, I always talk about, like you talk about your dandelion, I talk about my Tulsi. It's traditionally used for stress support and nervous system balance, and my lord, this time of my life I need it. And mint always is cooling and soothing to my stomach. But tougher things like fennel seeds I use, green cardamom pods I use, fresh ginger, roots and bark, those need more heat and those are decoctions because you simmer those to get through their tough exterior to get into the compounds that are harder to release.

from the exterior. So personally, I simmer my fennel and my green cardamom and my ginger, if I'm feeling like ginger, sometimes I just eat it by itself, because they're tougher and they need to release everything. And then when that's done, I add my, I pour it in my cup, let it sit for a few minutes, and then I'll add my peppermint or my sweet mint or Tulsi so it doesn't overcook it. And my gosh, it's amazing. And I leave them in there because we eat them as I drink my tea.

you should take like the leaves out after a certain time but I leave mine in because I like to eat mine and I was already doing all of these things naturally right here in my kitchen I didn't even realize that all the names for it so I thought that was just so so cool

Maggie (14:25.548)
It is, it's so cool. It's still, it's, they're so, we always talk about how there's so much to learn and you you, you tell me all the time that I, you know, I seem like an encyclopedia to you. But, but I mean, there's, but, but I'm not because there's just every time, you know, we go into an episode and I'm, and I'm preparing, I always find out something that I had no clue of.

Meara (14:33.231)
my gosh.

Meara (14:39.283)
You do.

Meara (14:44.509)
Yeah, so much.

Meara (14:51.697)
No. Sure.

Maggie (14:53.28)
And this whole tea thing, you know, blows my mind. Like I've been saying, I'm drinking all these teas, but I'm not. I do have my black tea and that is actual tea. And did you know that true tea is the second most popular beverage behind water? Yeah. Isn't that nuts? That's a great thing.

Meara (14:56.934)
know to do.

Yeah.

Meara (15:10.782)
Really?

wow. No wonder everybody's walking around dehydrated because tea is diuretic. Make sure you go to the bathroom.

Maggie (15:19.954)
Yeah, but from what I understand, doesn't act in a heavy dehydrating way, if that makes like other things would.

Meara (15:32.275)
No.

People are also adding other stuff to it like sugar and all that stuff. We don't put sugar in any of our things. My husband makes a hibiscus tea and my kids thought it was like juice or something special because we don't ever have that in our house. And so now when he makes this hibiscus tea, he just leaves it sit out all day and my kids drink this hibiscus tea. They love it. I don't like it. My kids, they love it. But they also beg for that pookie spice that we have and all those other silly things that we eat.

Maggie (15:40.107)
Gross.

Maggie (15:49.398)
It is tart.

Maggie (15:54.038)
I don't like it either.

Meara (16:02.721)
just herbs by itself. The one thing that I realized doing this is we are a culture here in America.

Maggie (16:06.327)
Great.

Meara (16:19.527)
that is so fast paced. We have gotten to the point where we want things at the drop of a dime. You know, like the microwave generation, now, now, now, now. We're not thinking about what it's gonna do to our bodies. We just think about, we want it in that moment. It feels good, it tastes good. It releases those chemicals in our brain, you know, and that's what we do. So with that, I'm getting into plastic tea bags. When I started researching that, that became another identity crisis and I

of losing my mind because I used to use those because it was quick. Some plastic tea bags release billions of micro plastic particles into our hot water, billions, and we still don't know what that constant exposure from all of these plastics are doing to us long term. You know, there's just not enough research out there. So that just made me realize, yeah, and that made me realize how fast everything we become because now we're taking these whole leaves and we're crushing them into dust and sealing them in a plastic bag and we're calling it convenience.

Maggie (17:06.847)
Mm-hmm, but it's all bad

Meara (17:19.361)
And because these tea bags are, you know, broken tea particles and dust, everything from that extracts so much faster. The bitterness, the tannins, the oxalates, and now you're just letting it sit in your cup of hot water, you know? But loose leaves release a lot slower and you can reuse them. I reuse my tea leaves three to five times by the third or fourth steep and then when I take them out,

that's where all the medicinal properties come out and and buying in bulk lasts forever. Now they may cost a lot more than your tea bags but they last so much longer and you can get five uses out of just those leaves you know and I think somewhere in the middle of this episode it just completely stopped being about tea and that's what all of this is really about it's about slowing down and being intentional you know.

Maggie (18:14.859)
Yes, and you will hear us continue to call a lot of these things T's when they're not technically T's, but that's just, you know, that's who we are. And to be honest with all of you, I think that's the way that you're going to understand it best also, because if we keep calling them Tzons or Tzanes or whatever, then that's such a new concept, I think, to most people. So I, you know, I will keep saying T.

Meara (18:39.262)
Yeah.

Meara (18:44.925)
Yeah, we call everything tea in this house. Our kids go outside and they got peppermint leaves last night and our older two were like, can we have some? And I'm like, go pick some. And they made tea. They just call it tea. We made tea out of it. So that's what we do also.

Maggie (18:47.447)
Yeah.

Maggie (18:56.863)
Mm-hmm.

I do I I use tea bags I don't always because I have some herbs at the house that I use fresh we make goldenrod tea a lot for for allergies and Respiratory. Mm-hmm. I did too and when it now you want to get the leaves on that before they bloom but when they bloom and they there's like

Meara (19:16.893)
I love Goldenrod. That's amazing.

Maggie (19:28.437)
a two week period where they bloom with ironweed and it's the most beautiful combination. But yeah, so, but I do, I do use tea bags for a lot of things. Now I use medicinal traditional tea for a lot of mine and I know that they have healthier tea bags, but still like Mary said, when, when you do crush those leaves, like

Meara (19:33.599)
Hmm.

Maggie (19:55.51)
It's right away where you get a lot of those good compounds and you know, the longer they sit crushed like that, you start to lose all of them. Not all of them, but a lot of them. You don't get the full impact.

Meara (20:02.708)
Yeah.

Maggie (20:07.767)
So.

Meara (20:08.093)
Yeah, and the bags usually use that polypropylene to seal it or nylon for the silky pyramid bags. I did just look up really quick. So if you want to avoid using plastic entirely and you're still wanting tea bags because you're not ready for this slow paced life of throwing out that first tea and then steeping. I mean, it really doesn't take that long, but I know that there's a lot of people out there that are still just so fast, that are still trying to get into this mode of slowing down.

have time for that, I get it. So if you're looking for a brand that you're wanting to look for, a brand that uses paper, abaca fiber, or certified compostable plant-based materials with no plastic heat seal layers. So I have a few options and I'll be sure to put it in the notes below. Some good plastic free tea bag brands. Traditional Medicinals, I've heard of that. They used unbleached

Maggie (21:02.285)
I just mentioned them.

Meara (21:04.123)
yeah, he's someplace naughty. Well, I just said I was looking it up as we go. So yes, what Meggie said.

Maggie (21:09.099)
Well, as I after I said it, I I'm pretty sure I said medicinal, traditional and that sounded off to me and I'm like, wait, what?

Meara (21:14.175)
Backwards. Okay. So they use unbleached, non-heat-sealed paper teabags, staple-sealed. That's scary. Very reliable for non-plastic standards.

It says also B Corp certified and focuses on herb teas. I'm not sure what that is, but I'm going to look that up. Numi Organic Tea, I've used that. They use plant-based compostable tea bags made from abaca fiber banana plant and no plastic sealant. It says it's one of the most consistent plastic free bag brands. Ooh, that's a tongue twister. And then Puka Herbs, that sounds funny. Tea bags are plastic free and made from unbleached compostable plant fibers. They're stitched together rather than heat sealed.

Tea is another popular brand I see in the store a lot of the time. Many other bags are plastic free and FSC certified paper with no plastic sealing. They've improved a lot in their recent years, but it's always good to double check with the specific blends. then Clipper Teas. I've never heard of Clipper Tea. It's known for unbleached plastic free plant based tea bags. Very strong reputation in the UK and EU and increasingly available in the US. So avoid those silky bag teas, bags labeled

Maggie (22:02.381)
good, I've used them.

Maggie (22:16.055)
Nor have I.

Meara (22:27.045)
sealed or heat sealed and very cheap generic store brand tea bags but I mean if you're really tight on money and you just want tea then you can get a plant for a few bucks and keep it in the windowsill with you know sweet mint or whatever and use that or if you're just like I am NOT there yet and you know I don't care what you're saying I just want my tea just do a little research and find some there's some pretty good reputable teas out there that don't cost too much yeah

Maggie (22:50.379)
Yeah, get a better brand. And it's, you know, and we're all at different stages. And even as Mira and I sit here and talk about all these different things that we do, like I said, I generally do use tea bags. I do have one of those metal infuser and fusion containers with the chain. I have not used it yet. I have it and I have every intention of, you know, of using it and

Meara (23:09.863)
Okay, that's what we use.

Maggie (23:19.797)
and using all these loose-leaf tees that I have, I either I'm just not thinking of it or it's just not a good time for me to do it. If it's just a crazy day and it's just one more thing, all these things are going to be baby steps.

Meara (23:39.262)
You realize, what do you think it is for you that keeps you from, you know, making that, especially when you already have those on hand? I mean, because my day is crazy too. You know, I have like five littles running around causing, and maybe that's the thing is they are so out of pocket. I have to make this tea. That's my absolute ever loving mind. Maybe that's my thing.

Maggie (23:48.095)
I have no idea.

Maggie (24:05.58)
I don't know. just, sometimes I just get mentally overwhelmed and there's so many things that, you know, cause I've had this hand crank mill forever and I have wheat berries and then I had to wait until I got cheaper wheat berries because I have to throw out the first three cups cause there could be metal shavings from this mill, right? But I still, had the cheaper wheat berries.

Meara (24:26.859)
well.

Maggie (24:31.628)
for a couple weeks now and I hadn't done anything and my husband's making pancakes and we have very little flour left and he was like well we're gonna need this soon and I was like all right well let me do it and I did it this morning and you have to throw out the first three cups right oh my goodness so that's two cups of wheat berries will give you three cups of milked flour this took forever and it was a lot of work but you know what

Meara (24:40.894)
Yeah.

Meara (24:44.798)
Really?

Okay.

Meara (24:54.44)
Okay.

Meara (25:01.235)
Yeah, so loving.

Maggie (25:02.696)
Aside from me having some like pain and discomfort in my body right now, I'm thinking this is going to be a fantastic workout for me and the kids got involved and they helped too. And it really just forces you to slow down. And it's amazing when you finally just start doing these things and it can be scary and it's like, cause you've never done it before and what if I'm doing it wrong and

Meara (25:07.903)
Mm-hmm.

Meara (25:15.252)
Hmm.

Meara (25:20.679)
It does. Intentional.

Maggie (25:29.664)
Just do it. That's a big problem that I have. I build these things up and I'm like, I just, can't handle it right now because it's just going to be too difficult, too much. And I don't know what I'm doing. And sometimes you just, you just enforce yourself to do it. And you're like, wow, that wasn't really that difficult. And you find joy in it. And

Meara (25:33.055)
It does.

Meara (25:49.769)
And then it becomes second nature when she gets started doing it. So get on the ball with that tea making, Meg.

Maggie (25:51.722)
it does yeah wait until i have to start doing that every single morning to make my fresh loaves of bread every day baby steps you know

Meara (25:57.889)
You

You

Yeah, three years later. No.

Maggie (26:06.572)
No.

Meara (26:11.913)
So that to me is what all of this is about, know, slowing down, being intentional, getting back to the small things that people used to do before life became just so rushed. And maybe that's what we need a little more of, you know? And next week is all about supporting the nervous system naturally and helping overstimulated minds and how to slow down a little bit. So I think that that will be another...

Maggie (26:12.406)
So yeah, just, yeah, go ahead. Now, here you go.

Meara (26:41.763)
good, I don't know what I'm saying, good piece to get into. I'm excited for this. And it's not just herbs, it's ways to help slow down. So I think that followed after this will be a good episode to get into. So be sure to like and follow if you enjoy these conversations with us. And until then.

Maggie (26:57.014)
Mm-hmm.

Maggie (27:04.108)
Stay rooted and stay alive.

Meara (27:06.95)
Stay wild.